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 Post subject: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 7:37 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Inspired by Antis in the Random Chatter forum, a post about a possible R/W Anax and Cymede Sliver deck, I started thinking about 2 color Sliver decks in general.

For some reason every single Sliver deck I came across since I started playing EDH was 5 colored. Antis mentioned that R/W has 35 Slivers (without changelings) in its color identity. This means that every 2 color combination has more or less that amount. That's a pretty serious base for a 2 color tribal deck.

So suppose you would have to choose a 2 color combination to build slivers, which would you choose and who would lead the skittery gang? How would you support it besides the slivers themselves?

I was thinking:
- R/W aggro. Anax and Cymede does sound like a fun general indeed. What I really like about this is the amount of haste and cheap tricks you could play. Should be a great budget deck, which I'm sort of looking for (I don't always want to carry around tricked out, foiled out decks).
- U/G. I started sketching this one out with Edric as the top dog. Blue and green have some good Slivers: mana accel, Telekinetic Sliver, Virulent Sliver, pump from small to big, uncounterability, haste, vigilance. Plus, Clones synergize pretty well with slivers and U/G have the obvious great utility. If this list of mine gets some more body, maybe I'll post it.
- G/R. I kinda like green as a color for slivers and red makes it a bit more aggressive (I really like Firewake Sliver). Maybe with Ruric Thar as general?

Anyway, I'd love to hear what you guys think.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 8:44 am 

Joined: 2012-Jun-07 5:38 pm
Age: Drake
Maybe [[Radha, Heir to Keld]]? it's hard to get more aggressive in 2 colors than 2cmc


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 2:11 pm 

Joined: 2013-Aug-20 4:37 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Boston
G/U Edric slivers sounds pretty saucy. You have most of the anthem slivers in Muscle Sliver, Predatory Sliver, Might Sliver, and Megantic Sliver. Telekinetic Sliver is obviously great and Gemhide and Manaweft Slivers are pretty saucy. You get a ton of supplemental spells that are good; kicking Rite of Replication on any sliver is fantastic, and on Dormant Sliver it will draw you 30 cards. Wild Pair is also a great compliment to the sliver strategy, and there are a lot of things like Fecundity and Greater Good to ensure you never run out of dudes to play.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-10 7:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
It does, doesn't it. I also really like Dormant Sliver, but I'd have to include a couple of good sac-outlets besides Greater Good. Well, we do have access to Mnemonic Sliver.
Maybe Aluren and/or Intruder Alarm too? Although I'm not sure if I want it to feel too combo-y. Killing people with Screeching Sliver sounds like a lot of fun though. I'm already liking the different kill possibilities in this color combination (damage, poison, mill).

Btw, Greater Good is pretty on-theme with its name too. With the whole hive thing going on, every sliver is for the greater good. Awesome.
Now that I think of it, Hive Mind needs to go in it, but seems hard to make work in a deck with so many creatures :cry:


crimsonwings3689 wrote:
Maybe Radha, Heir to Keld? it's hard to get more aggressive in 2 colors than 2cmc


Ah, yes! Savage Beating would also be great to have in a sliver deck, especially with the big green slivers.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 12:31 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Thanks for the shoutout! This is really going somewhere. I now see I only scratched the surface of the box. I also never saw Slivers except for the 5C legends. They are very tempting, right? But now we actually have enough Slivers to have specialized Sliver decks. Just the thought gives me goosebumps :D

Suitable generals IMO are:
WU - Ayesha Tanaka (yay for banding!), Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Isperia, Supreme Judge, Lavinia of the Tenth, Medomai the Ageless
UB - Oona, Queen of the Fae, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Vela the Night-Clad
BR - Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Lyzolda, the Blood Witch, Rakdos, Lord of Riots
RG - Radha, Heir to Keld, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, Sunastian Falconer, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, Xenagos, God of Revels
GW - Chorus of the Conclave, Gaddock Teeg (no wraths, yay!), Karametra, God of Harvests, Saffi Eriksdotter, Tolsimir Wolfblood
WB - Athreos, God of Passage
UR - Jhoira of the Ghitu, Nin, the Pain Artist
BG - Sapling of Colfenor, Savra, Queen of the Golgari
RW - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran, ANAX AND CYMEDE, Aurelia, the Warleader, Brion Stoutarm, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Iroas, God of Victory, Razia, Boros Archangel
GU - Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Momir Vig, Simic Visionary, Prime Speaker Zegana

My personal favorites are Anax and Cymede (OBV), Grenzo, Ruric Thar, Xenagos, Gaddock, Saffi, Athreos and Edric.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


Last edited by Antis on 2014-Aug-11 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 12:51 am 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Ooh, Gaddock Teeg sounds great too. Too bad he's a pretty hated guy. I remember playing a couple of games with a pretty fair Teeg deck (basic G/W beatdown with Teeg as Wrath protection, nothing broken), but he shut down entire boards. I started a thread on here somewhere asking how people felt about him in a non-broken deck and the consensus was that he was annoying period. I'm feeling that combined with how un-fond people are of slivers, this would be a pretty hate inducing combination. Too bad though. Gaddock seems perfect for this.

Antis, did you have a preliminary list for that Anax and Cymede deck? I'd love to try it.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 1:34 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
An Edric deck built as a riff on the old counter-sliver decks sounds strong.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 4:35 am 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
Squirrely wrote:
Antis, did you have a preliminary list for that Anax and Cymede deck? I'd love to try it.

Unfortunately, no, but I believe you can very well start by picking my current Anax build and just swap out regular creatures for Slivers/changelings. Add some tribe-boosting cards like Door of Destinies and you're good to go. Oh, and Blades of Velis Vel, don't you dare leave it out! Just imagining T3 Blur Sliver into T4 Bonescythe Sliver into T5 general and Blades...that's 28 damage (12 commander) just in T5.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 7:01 am 
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Joined: 2009-Aug-20 7:49 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Hampshire
Antis wrote:
Squirrely wrote:
Antis, did you have a preliminary list for that Anax and Cymede deck? I'd love to try it.

Unfortunately, no, but I believe you can very well start by picking my current Anax build and just swap out regular creatures for Slivers/changelings. Add some tribe-boosting cards like Door of Destinies and you're good to go. Oh, and Blades of Velis Vel, don't you dare leave it out! Just imagining T3 Blur Sliver into T4 Bonescythe Sliver into T5 general and Blades...that's 28 damage (12 commander) just in T5.

Mirror Entity would be stupid good there as well.

_________________
"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-11 11:47 pm 
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Joined: 2012-Nov-27 4:39 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Midgard
It would be pretty easy to build a Grenzo, Sliver deck. I'll try building that, and post the list on my current decklist thread for Sliver decks I try creating. Other than Plague Sliver and Battering Sliver, all of 34 possible Slivers going into B/R are 3/3 or less. Add in Adaptive Automaton, some recursion/Reito Lantern/JunkTroller/Soldevi Digger, and there might be a deck there.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-14 9:04 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Grenzo sounds very good for this. I don't necessarily think that the B/R sliver combination is the best (I don't think there are a lot of black slivers that really pull me into the color), but having a good general might make up for that.

In other news, I played a handful of games with both U/G (Edric) and R/G (Radha) slivers and I have to say: people are real scared of slivers. I haven't found the fear necessary, because most of the games I just play a couple of 1/1's, get Wrathed and peter out. I guess the fear of Slivers comes from the nut draws the little buggers are capable of. I mean, I have out aggro'd people too, but the chance of this happening is not too high.

This puts the decks I tested in a weird spot. People actively try to disrupt and attack me, while the deck feels a bit underpowered as a whole. When I have an impact on the game it's either because I draw the nuts, or comes from non-sliver cards.

I'll keep trying for a while, but I can really see myself not pursuing the deck longer if this trend keeps up.

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-15 8:13 am 

Joined: 2013-Aug-10 9:49 pm
Age: Wyvern
Squirrely wrote:
For some reason every single Sliver deck I came across since I started playing EDH was 5 colored.

I just wanted to make a point on this. If you look at the Sliver legendaries, it's pretty apparent why they're five color. Just wanted to point that out.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-15 10:09 pm 

Joined: 2008-May-01 3:07 am
Age: Dragon
Well obviously, I was just surprised that I haven't seen anyone try out a non-5-color Sliver build when the possibilities are definitely there. I mean, I wouldn't be the first time that an EDH player would play an off-theme general..

_________________
Generals:
Endrek (my main squeeze)
Yeva, Nature's Herald (hold on, I have a response)
Kami of the Crescent Moon (mass draw, bounce and shenanigans)
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs (you did this to yourself: mono red edition)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-16 7:20 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Nov-16 1:14 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Prague, Heart of Europe
I think it's really because the Sliver legends are extraordinarily iconic to their tribe. Best coparison would be to Elementals. They've been around since Alpha and are present in all five colors, but they don't have a singular tying theme or mechanic to go with them. They did get an iconic 5C general in Horde of Notions, but that was already well into the game's lifetime. My point is, when Horde came out, Elementals were already around for quite some time, whereas Slivers are very tied to their Legends, coming out with them and always being released in cycles, which makes thinking out of the five-colored box that much harder in their case.

Also, there's the fact that even when their second generation came out in the Onslaught block, there were still too few of them for them to support any less colorful EDH deck. For a long time, 5C was the only option and people just got used to it.

_________________
I could be wrong. I'm just not in the mood.
tempesteye wrote:
In my early teens I was a Timmy.
In my late teens I was a Spike.
In my 20's I was a Johnny.
Now, I just like to play.
'Active decks' list here.
Currently hiring servants for my palace, made from my own walls of text.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 color Sliver tribal decks
AgePosted: 2014-Aug-16 10:51 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-02 3:54 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Germany, near Berlin
Forget 2c!
Azorius: 34 Slivers
Dimir: 31
Rakdos: 34
Gruul: 36
Selesnya: 37
Orzhov: 33
Golgari: 33
Simic: 33
Izzet: 32
Boros: 35

In these 31-37 creatures there are 3 vanilla Artifact Creatures, 2 of which I wouldn't play at all and also some Slivers with useless abilities. For example, there are 35 silvers in Boros colors (R/W), including:
Venser's Sliver
Sliver Construct
Armor Sliver
Watcher Sliver
Quilled Sliver
(Cautery Sliver)
(Poultice Sliver)
Steelform Sliver
Hunter Sliver
(Barbed Sliver)
Fury Sliver
(Battering Sliver)
(Constricting Sliver)

So you are left with 27 playable slivers, 5 of which I'd consider fringe-playable. There aren't so many good Changelings to fill up.

My proposal would be going 3color.
For example Temur (URG) has 51 different slivers and of those about 38 I would call playable. The General here could be either Animar or Riku... both are powerful Legends.

possible Generals:
Bant (GWU): Derevi, Rafiq
Esper (WUB): Ertai, Oloro
Grixis (UBR): Marchesa, Sedris
Jund (BRG): Kresh, Sek'Kuar
Naya (RGW): Gahiji, Marath
Abzan (BGW): Doran, Karador, (Ghave)
Jeskai (RWU): Ruhan
Mardu (WRB): Zurgo
Sultai (GUB): Damia, Mimeoplasm
Temur (URG): Riku, Animar

and just wait for Khans of Tarkir!

_________________
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Generals:
too many, and always changing... except:

Rakdos, Lord of Riots (Demon Tribal)
Melek, Izzet Paragon (Dragonstorm) -> these must stay because of a house rule


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