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 Post subject: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 2:43 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-15 2:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Denver, CO
One of the common complaints I hear from more competitive EDH players is that "casual players don't want people to interact before turn five."

I find this interesting, because I consider my decks pretty well optimized, but they rarely do much interacting that early in the game either. If I'm casting spells turns 1-4, they are most often:
a) Ramping with artifacts or land search
b) Setting up card advantage with cards like Phyrexian Arena or Rhystic Study
c) Spending the occasional removal spell on something like a turn one Serra Ascendant or Sol Ring.

In my experience, playing too many cards before turn five just gets you blown out by the first board sweeper, and cheap little creatures aren't great in EDH anyways. My only deck which regularly commits non-ramping guys to the board turns 1-3 is my Oros Equipment, and that's only because it has tools to make small creatures relevant at any point in the game.

So what are you guys doing before turn five?

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Last edited by obsidiandice on 2011-Apr-27 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 2:54 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Mar-03 10:07 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I see very few EDH decks that are doing anything but ramping before turn five. Of course, some of those are ramping VERY quickly and have 10 mana on turn 4, which sort of negates the whole "it's just ramp, chill out yo" argument... but such is the way of this format.

Unsurprisingly my decks with the most early game action are my Rhys and my Savra. Rhys can himself come down on turn 1 to save mana for pumping out elves later, and since it basically is an elf deck it gets silly quickly. Savra, by contrast, is usually spending the early turns setting up its control game with some recursion elements, a sac outlet or two, putting some things in the bin for later, etc, and of course some ramp. I particularly enjoy the games that go T2 Signet, T3 Shambling Shell, T4 Savra. "Hey, those creatures that you were playing until you find a way to either play 2 in a turn or get rid of Savra? Guess what." It is no accident that both of these decks are green-based.

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Currently Playing:
Animar: All-Creatures, All The Time (Silly stompy-aggro)
Sen Triplets: Robots! (Proliferate Control/Combo)
Sedris, the Traitor King: BRAAAAAINS (Zombie Tribal)
Zedruu, Group Pickpocket (Pillowfort Test of Endurance deck. You heard right)
Ghave, Guru of Dumb (Token Control)

gaijinguy wrote:
As for blue- being boring/infuriating by crushing everyone else's fun until it assembles a cheeseball combo is pretty much what it DOES.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 3:28 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Apr-13 2:53 am
Age: Dragon
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Before turn 5 in Rith, I'm generally dropping small critters and ramping my mana. Little dudes like Qasali Pridemage and Yavimaya Elder will come out asap, then stick around and poke people until I decide to use their abilities.

In my Teysa deck, I usually do nothing before turn 5. I might drop in Ashnod's Altar or Relic of Progenitus, but only if I think I'll need them right away.

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Please disregard the above post. I am probably tired/sick/brain damaged from inhaling metal fumes and dust at work.

Current Decks
Rith, the Awakener (Formerly Asmira, Holy Avenger and Tolsimir Wolfblood)
Sharuum the Hegemon (WIP) (Formerly Teysa, Orzhov Scion)
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 4:03 pm 

Joined: 2010-Sep-11 12:19 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
In Rayne:
Praying I draw a counterspell and some more land.

In Kiku:
Praying I draw removal and more land.

In Mangara:
Praying I draw anything useable and more land.

In Adamaro:
Praying I don't die on turn 5 because my deck sucks so badly.

In Azusa:
Praying I don't draw more land. Becaues on turn 5 I should be playing Genesis Wave or Gelatinous for a dozen or so.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 4:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-Nov-24 2:16 pm
Age: Dragon
Killing stuff. Laying down aggro hate. Tutoring for a win condition.


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 4:08 pm 
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Joined: 2011-Jan-23 3:17 am
Age: Elder Dragon
In Patron of the Orochi, I try to get out one of a few choice snakes so I can drop a turn 4 patron.

In Uril, I drop whatever equips or ceartures I can afford. Or land ramp.

In Scion, I play vivid lands, ravnica bounce lands, the same vivid lands, and any fertile growth-type cards I luck into drawing.

In general, I use landcycling or play whatever setup stuff I draw into. I don't get very active unless I get a nice reanimator hand in Karrthus.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 4:23 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Jun-19 6:32 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Lappeenranta, Finland
Xiahou Dun
Playing whatever Night's Whispers or Mesmeric Orbs I have before starting an infinite stream of creatures. The deck has so much recursion, I can safely drop all my creatures early on and not have to worry about losing them. I can easily defend myself from early creature-based aggression or put the hurts on someone who isn't doing anything relevant early on, and after that the deck will only get more and more powerful as the game goes on.

Kaervek
Killing you. The deck typically establishes its game plan by turn 5 by following one of two paths:
1) Draw Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, or Gauntlet of Might, then ramp into Kaervek. Keep Kaervek on the board whenever possible while spending the rest of your mana on whatever other threats you draw.
2) Skip the part where you're not dealing damage and just open with aggressive creatures (Stigma Lasher, Adamaro, Hero of Oxid Ridge, Thunderblust) and support cards (equipment, Spiteful Visions, Gratuitous Violence), with Kaervek as the primary nail in the coffin.
Kaervek doesn't have answers to a lot of stuff early on, or at any point in the game for that matter, but if your strategy relies on things that are vulnerable to damage, such as creatures, planeswalkers, or your life total being above 0, you're in for a painful race. Four turns of inaction at the start of the game isn't going to look good for you there, even if you're not my only target.

Glissa
Uh... I'm probably doing nothing, despite spending all my mana consistently each turn. The whole deck is a fine-tuned machine that constantly cycles and recurs all sorts of baubles, but doesn't really accomplish much by doing so. Still, chances are if someone else tries something funky early on, I pull off some sort of an answer to it. Glissa herself is also a decent wall.


Last edited by Filth on 2011-Apr-27 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 4:31 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 7:00 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
drop down a few usable's arty's to get me a little momentum. then drop something that screams HAHAHAHA now what you gonna do? then pick off one by one

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 5:10 pm 
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Joined: 2006-May-24 10:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Furiously scribbling notes. After Turn 5, more furiously scribbling notes.

Really, I'll pay someone $20 hard cash if they record the games each night in a fashion that I can read later on (and isn't painful for me to transcribe--like video would be).

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 5:52 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Let's see here...

Omnath:
T1-3: Ramp Ramp Ramp Omnath Ramp
T4-5: Start killin people

Ghost Council:
T1: Land
T2: Land, maybe tutor for something (usually a land :P)
T3: Land, dude
T4: Land, Ghost Council
T5: Some token making thingamy

Savra:
T1-3: Random dudes/spells/some ramp
T4-5: Sac outlet, more guys

Mayael the Anima:
T1-5: Ramp/Landsearch/Kill random utility dorks (a lot more land search than land ramp in this one)

Doran, the Siege Tower:
T1-3: Land, Land, little 0/3 or 1/4 guy, Land, Doran
T4+: (sing it now!) I like big BUTTS and I cannot lie.... :lol:

Szadek:
T1-5: Really Bad Cards(tm) (this is a theme that lasts through the whole deck :lol:)

Jaya Ballard:
T1: Mountain, Kill something
T2: Mountain, Kill something
T3: Mountain, Jaya
T4: Mountain, Kill lots of things
T5: Mountain, Recast Jaya ;)

Hope that, uh, helps. Yeah, helps.

Viperion

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"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 6:45 pm 
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Joined: 2009-Dec-22 7:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: New Brunswick
Either playing elves, or hoping to draw lands if I kept a greedy opening hand and didn't draw a second land on turn 2. The amount of elves I play is usually based on the contents of my hand. It's either go all in to power something out before wrath, or cautious to bounce back quickly. The bounce back is usually hitting the wrather for 10+ damage in bears after they played into Caller of the Claw.

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Kicking your teeth in is a valid strategy.
Current decks:
Radha, Heir to Keld-Super Elfball
Retired decks:
Scion, of the Ur-Dragon-Dragons, Dragons everywhere
Wort, Boggart Auntie-Goblin Shenanigans
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer-I will Prevail


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 6:57 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Nov-04 8:04 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Doran:
hopefully setting up Magus of the Library or Bloom Tender and bash with Doran while getting ready for the midgame and ramping.

Rhys:
By turn five I am usually figuring out how I am going to set myself up to win in 2 turns while playing dudes and making tokens. Or I’m trying to get Seedborn Muse and Gaea's Cradle to stay in play.

Shirei:
Bashing with 1/X infect guys and tutoring my butt off.

Arcum:
By turn five I should have won or will win in the next turn or so. Hopefully Starting a new game.

Ulasht:
Playing dudes, ramping, and hoping I draw Warp World.

Ob Nixilis:
Gotta get that Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Rings of Brighthearth and Crucible of Worlds

Hanna:
Probably wondering why I am playing this deck.

Konda:
Hoping I draw enough lands and mana rocks while plopping dumb creatures and equipment into play.

Zur:
It is a theme deck with old people on every card. Having fun trying to figure out what I am going to do with these crappy cards. I’m happy when no one is killing me.

Asmira:
Setting up sac outlets, ramping, and playing little dudes. Hoping to get Awakening Zone online.

Dakkon:
Hopefully finding something to play so I have a blocker.

Kresh:
Realizing I really didn’t put much effort in this deck and should just take it apart.

Vorosh:
It is a Token and +1/+1 counter theme deck so ramping and playing guys who make tokens. Looking to draw Intuition so I can get told I’m not playing the card right when I get Worm Harvest, Spitting Image, and Life from the Loam.

Box of Tokens:
I should label this better so I don’t keep grabbing it thinking it is a deck.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 7:13 pm 
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Joined: 2010-Jul-18 9:59 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
GU Doug wrote:
Arcum:
By turn five I should have won or will win in the next turn or so. Hopefully Starting a new game.
Do you mind running me through an example? There's not that much ramp in Mono-U, so I'm guessing Arcum is turn 3 most of the time, 2 with Sol Ring/Crypt/Vault.... then what?
Quote:
Box of Tokens:
I should label this better so I don’t keep grabbing it thinking it is a deck.
:lol:

Viperion

_________________
"Degenerate, unfun decks generally come from degenerate, unfun players in my experience." - Cthulus Thrall

"- if this spell is played ten times in a given game then I suggest you warm up the tar and pluck some chickens" - tarnar

The internet's great at making noise, and poor at operating pants. There's gonna be half-dressed mobs screeching half-assed arguments for the rest of the 21st century - Kemev


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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 7:57 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Nov-08 5:27 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Canberra
Land, land, land, land.

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 Post subject: Re: What Are You Doing Before Turn Five?
AgePosted: 2011-Apr-27 8:17 pm 

Joined: 2010-Nov-01 10:39 pm
Age: Drake
nicol bolas:
T1: land god hand: T1: land, sol ring, sigant.
T2: land T2: land, guilded lotus
T3: land T3: nicol bolas planeswalker
T4: land T4: nicol bolas. opponent scoops
T5: land

rayne:
T1: land
T2: land
T3: land and fetch tabernacle at pendral vale
T4: propaganda and land
T5: start building my mana to make my opponents draw there deck

xiahou dun
T1: land sol ring
T2: land xiahou dun
T3: land hatred
if not ill draw one of the million tutors to get there before five. its my douchey deck


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