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 Post subject: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 2:53 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
Daxos was the most interesting legend to come out of Theros for me. Here's the deck I built around him.

Commander
1 Daxos of Meletis

Creatures (23)
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Augury Adept
1 Azure Mage
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Gold Myr
1 Indomitable Archangel
1 Leonin Abunas
1 Lu Xun, Scholar General
1 Medomai the Ageless
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Rootwater Thief
1 Silver Myr
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Slithermuse
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Sun Titan
1 Tandem Lookout
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor

Artifacts (17)
1 Azorius Signet
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Coalition Relic
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Batterskull
1 Fireshrieker
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace

Enchantments (3)
1 Cradle of Vitality
1 True Conviction
1 Steel of the Godhead

Instants (9)
1 Azorius Charm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Hinder
1 Mana Drain
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares

Planeswalkers (6)
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

Sorceries (5)
1 Austere Command
1 Revoke Existence
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Time Spiral
1 Wrath of God

Lands (36)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Den
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Command Tower
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Hallowed Fountain
9 Island
1 Mystic Gate
9 Plains
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tundra

My original plan with the deck was to have a ton of mana artifacts, so that I could cast Daxos on turn 2 or 3, then be able to cast whatever I pulled from other players' libraries. Unfortunately, the majority of the time I pulled land. This meant I drew a ton of mana artifacts but had nothing to do with it. I ended up pulling a bunch of the mana rocks for cheaper draw and some answers.

The equipment suite was always in the deck. Despite having some limited evasion, it's still pretty simple for people to block Daxos. Giving him a Sword and double strike makes him that much better.

There are a few different ways to see what's on the top of a persons library, but most of them are bad, like Lantern of Insight and Wizened Snitches. Plus, people like to run Sensei's Divining Top and Crystal Ball, which are problematic for going heavily into this route. I cut way down on this stuff, and stuck with just a few cards that were usually useful even if people could shuffler their libraries.

So how does the deck do? Check it out here: http://puremtgo.com/articles/conqueror- ... os-meletis

Questions, comments, concerns, let me know!

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 3:52 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
This deck feels really phoned in. You have a general who does stuff, and your card choices do not reflect that at all. It's just a UW life & goodstuff shell with a couple (literally two) top of library effects added seemingly as an afterthought.

For example, you play Revoke Existence over Disempower. You are playing only a single Time Ebb effect, and it's not even Submerge (and Charm doubles as a cantrip or lifelink effect). I'm not asking you to play Portent and Vedalken Dismisser, but I don't even see an effort here. (I would play those, but I love playing bad cards.) Honestly, Looking at your entire 99, the only hint that this is a Daxos deck is the single Memory Lapse. Other than that, this could be a Geist of St Traft deck and nobody would bat an eyelid.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 4:02 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, the cards you're talking about are just bad (except Portent, completely missed that one and would have played it). I tried using some of them (I talk about it in the article) and, well, they didn't work well (meaning I didn't win). I went with Azorius Charm, Jace TMS, Memory Lapse and Hinder because they were good and worked well. The one I didn't include but wanted to was Spin into Myth.

It's funny, people were telling me I should use Medomai as my Commander instead. But Medomai was just too powerful for my taste. Building more around Daxos just lead to the deck not doing as well. I dunno, I guess you could sacrifice consistency to build more around Daxos. I understand your frustration though.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 4:26 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I don't expect people other than me to play cards like Hunting Drake, but I want to see 5 cards that make me think this is a Daxos deck instead of 1. Lapse of Certainty, Submerge, and Spin into Myth are all fine cards, and they would at least have suggested the theme.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 5:40 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I went and read the whole article and watched a couple videos. You spend a lot of time complaining about how Daxos is bad because he never hits anything good. But you also make no effort to make him good. You had somehow decided beforehand that blind swings with Daxos are good enough. Then you discover that isn't really the case, and you decide to blame Daxos instead of your lack of support for his ability.

You routinely had a target-rich environment for Submerge (and even Disempower) with Daxos online, but you didn't run them because you've decided they are bad in a vacuum. And then you are shocked when you brick on Daxos. I think you really built a deck that does very little for your general and paid the price. I think you would have enjoyed your deck a lot more if you had just committed to your general a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 6:08 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
Ummm, no. So what you don't see in the article is when I did commit more fully to Daxos before hand. Of course, I was using Vanishment, Lantern of Insight, Lapse of Certainty, Wizened Snitches and some other stuff I can't recall off the top of my head. And like I said, it didn't win. After that I re-tooled, going for the ramp approach, figuring that would work out better. It took some tweaking, but it did.

However, Submerge is another card that I didn't try. Part of the issue most of the time is that many of these cards are mana intensive, and playing them on the turn before you hit with Daxos means that you won't actually get to cast the stuff. I like that Submerge gets around that by being free. I'm disappointed in myself for forgetting to use it, mainly because I used to use it in the past (although it's been a while).

Based on your suggestions I would make the following changes:

In: Portent, Submerge
Out: Consecrated Sphinx, Ajani, Caller of the Pride

The Sphinx and Ajani were sort of "win more" at times, and likely not necessary, although powerful. I really like both Portent and Submerge because they are typically cheap to cast. The additions don't get around Crystal Ball and Top, but I guess nothing really does.

Disempower I'm not sold on yet. Spin into Myth, I would just be too tempted to tuck Commanders with it, and I've been trying to avoid doing that more recently. That's a self control issue. Plus, the 5 mana it costs isn't the easiest thing in the world, even if it's a powerful card.

Someone did mention that hitting people's land and exiling it ended up land screwing some players. So I guess that can be a benefit, although not necessarily what I want.

Anyways, the deck I think would be fine with these changes. I'm glad you mentioned this though, it's bad to get into the habit to play stuff that turns the deck into too much "good stuff." I still try to present stuff that wins though, so it's a balancing act.

Edit- Also, I think you should post something in the comments section of the article about all the stuff I'm not using you think I missed. Would be helpful to others.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-01 6:46 am 

Joined: 2011-Sep-30 6:08 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm not really convinced it's "good" to spend more than three mana on a tuck for Daxos. (I would do it, but I love bad cards.) I think, however, that some of the more efficient spells are actually fine.

For example, I think Vanishment is basically unplayable because I generally don't want to/can't Miracle it. However, I think having one actual Time Ebbs is fine. (Maybe even Time Ebb and Excommunicate to dodge pro U.) Lapse of Certainty is also cheap enough to run as a surprise white counterspell. Nevermaker is playable if you are going to run some blink enablers. (And I have a huge soft spot for Galepowder Mage, Venser, and even Mistmeadow Witch.) If you are running Double Strike effects or want to set up an attack for next turn, Oust is very mana efficient. And you don't care that much that they are sorceries, since you mostly want to swing and tap out second main phase to play something sweet anyway. I would even be tempted to play Metamorphose just because it's so versatile and efficient (assuming you can make an educated guess that you aren't going to see something even worse come down in the card's place).

I think there is a happy middle ground somewhere with a handful of tuck effects where Daxos can consistently get value for you without having to play bad stuff like Vanishment.

Also, you may not be aware of this (or it may not work on MODO), but in paper Magic if you tuck a general and then Daxos it, you can cast their general even from their command zone until EoT.

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-04 12:12 am 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
I'm gonna have to side with Crokaycete... this deck really doesn't make use of Daxos at all and would be far better just replacing him with Geist.

It's really kinda sad that you instantly abandoned him after a few losses and turned it into a good stuff voltron deck. How many games did you actually try it before switching everything? My Daxos deck is pretty heavily built around his abilities and it wins far more than I expected it to.

I'm having trouble believing that Top or Crystal Ball are really a "problem" at all. Unless it's tutored out first thing, statistically, it's not going to show up early or even at all for more than one player. On the rare times it does, drop removal on the top, they draw a card and you get your own top or it's gone anyway. No more problem. Also, Codex Shredder, Wand of Denial, etc. Even without any of these, with double strike; you're not going to be hitting two lands every time. Even if you do, they're going to be stalled on lands indefinitely... Congrats on a free win.

You can swear up and down that all these cards that help you control their top of library are "bad" cards but they're only bad if you're already losing. You're playing a general that is only as strong as your opponents top of library but refuse to play anything to control it and instead leave it up to random chance then complain that his ability is weaker than you imagined...

Unexpectedly Absent definitely needs a slot in here.


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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2013-Nov-04 2:07 am 
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Joined: 2009-Feb-11 1:24 pm
Age: Dragon
I can usually tell if a concept is going to work within 2 games, barring mana screw. I tried 3 games with the bounce heavy version. The equipment package was always part of the deck (you gotta make sure you can hit).

Top is a constant problem online. It appears at a minimum every other game. If you go through my archives you'll see the diatribes I've written about the card. Crystal Ball obviously not as much. And in the first video you can see both of them out at the same time, while the remaining opponent had a Vampire Nighthawk.

There is a significant double strike package in here. You're the second person who mentioned making people stall out on lands, and it's an aspect I didn't really consider. You're right, I hit lands so often that it actually stalled out more than a few of my opponents. It's not what I was expecting at all, sort of a pseudo mana denial strategy. It's also not really what I wanted from the deck, but whatever.

Honestly the deck shouldn't be a Geist deck, it should be a Medomai deck. But that's just too much of a target on my back. There were a few cards mentioned here that I would put in the deck that I hadn't thought of, but really I'm happy with it the way it is. I'm happy your version is working out though. Like I recommended to crokaycete, you should add your suggestions to the comments of the article, I think it would be worthwhile to others.

Oh yeah, Unexpectedly Absent should be in the deck for sure. Unfortunately it isn't available online until Dec. 20 :(

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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-28 8:36 am 

Joined: 2014-Jan-28 8:28 am
Age: Egg
Dude, you're playing Daxos all wrong, Daxos can be an absolute powerhouse, Holy Mantle
Aqueous form Righteous Authority Ethereal Armor
Play cards like those, stuff your deck full of enchantments for Daxos, his whole exiling the top card ability is useless, what you want to do is make him as hard to block as possible and enchant the crap outta him and deal out that 21 commander damage as fast as possible, and watch and laugh as they get killed with what used to be a puny little 2/2


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 Post subject: Re: Daxos of Meletis (with vids)
AgePosted: 2014-Jan-29 11:01 pm 

Joined: 2011-Aug-18 3:35 pm
Age: Elder Dragon
dennin wrote:
Dude, you're playing Daxos all wrong, Daxos can be an absolute powerhouse, Holy Mantle
Aqueous form Righteous Authority Ethereal Armor
Play cards like those, stuff your deck full of enchantments for Daxos, his whole exiling the top card ability is useless, what you want to do is make him as hard to block as possible and enchant the crap outta him and deal out that 21 commander damage as fast as possible, and watch and laugh as they get killed with what used to be a puny little 2/2


In what way is that the "right way" to play Daxos? It ignores all of his innate abilities in which case you're paying 3 for a 2/2 which is terrible. Geist would be strictly better as commander in a list like that since both of his abilities would still be relevant.

Exiling the top card is far from useless. Especially when you control what that top card is. Stealing other players' generals (it still tracks them to the command zone) or key combo/synergy pieces (or just leaving them exiled) is huge and offers you crazy amounts of control. The deck doesn't need to even run "win cons" since you get to take them from everyone else leaving tons of room for more control elements or just pet cards.


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