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 Post subject: The EDH Mafia descends on GenCon.
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-20 12:46 pm 

Joined: 2007-Jun-07 1:11 pm
Age: Drake
Well, GenCon ran three EDH events at 10 pm each night. Rules: 4-6 man pods, depending on the number of people in the event, top 2 from each pod advance. Having heard the second rule, my group of players formed the EDH mafia.

We have been playing EDH for upwards of two years, having been introduced to the format by judges Aaron Cutler and Chris (Sneak) Stagno. The mafia consisted of those two, playing Zur and Dralnu, myself, playing Momir Vig, Nick, playing Captain Sisay, Jason, playing Karn and Brain, playing Niv-Mizzet. There were a few other mafia members on certain nights.

The prize payout was about two boxes, split among top 4.

Night 1:

Round 1:

Pod 1: Myself and Brian are in a pod together. Ken Nagle is also playing. His Magus of the Vineyard accelerates me into an early Wood Elves, followed by a Yavimaya Dryad. Kami of the Cresent Moon is played, and every one has to sacrifice two lands, leaving me in the best position with two lands and a Zoetic cavern face down.

Ken plays a Heartbeat of Spring, and I forbid a Boldwyr HEavyweights, and Worldly tutor up my Palinchron. Having infinite mana, I drop Memnarch, take everybody's permanents, and pass the turn. Next turn, I Chord of Calling up a Body Double, copying Ken's Kamahl of Green, killing everyone except Brian.

Pod 2: Sneak comboes out with Dralnu. No other Mafia members are in his pod, so he takes someone random with him.

Pod 3: Nick and Jason are in this pod. Jason gets off to a slow start, but Nick is out the door with Sisay as usual. The game ends off of Sisay, Seedborn Muse, Horoki + Karakas, and a butt load of Nemata tokens.

Pod 4: No Mafia members.
Round 2:

Pod 1: Sneak and Brian are put in one pod. A different Karn deck goes totally aggro and starts bashing Sneak into the ground. Luckily a Poticullis kept no more that two creatures on board, while Brian kept Sneak alive with a Staff of Domination. Then, Sneak played Fact or Fiction, Brian of course giving him the 5-0 split. Brian Time Stretched Sneak, giving him two extra turns. On one turn, he Mind Slavered the person sitting between the two, and then set up the combo. He locked down the guy with Slaver.

On his own turn, he Time Stretched himself again, and proceeded to combo.

Pod 2: In my own pod was Jason, Nick and myself, with two others. Karn's Winter Orb locked down the early game, although I was doing OK with some extra lands via Wood Elves. Sisay got off to a slow start. The game slowly peedled along until a Cryptic Command countered one of Karn's spells and bounced Winter Orb. A few turns passed, and Nick played a Yosei. Yosei found a Rewind from the Jhoira player, and in response I Chorded up a Teferi, looking to combo, with Palinchron in hand.

Much to my demise, Nick already had a Gaea's Cradle in play. Nonetheless, I searched it up with Reap and Sow, and Witnessed it back to hand, played it, and tried to combo. Again, my Cradle hit the bin off of a Ghost Quarter. Luckily, my board was not swept, and on my own turn, I Sakashima'd my Witness, getting back Cradle, mad infinite mana, found Tidespout Tyrant, and bounced the board. Having already seen the outcome of the other pod, I killed the two non-mafia members, one of my buddies scooped, and we split five-ways.

Day 2:Sneak and I did not play, but Aaron, Nick, Jason, Brian, and Bowman (another stand-in Mafia member, playing Vorosh) locked it up the second day for the five-way split.

Day 3:

Round 1:
Pod 1: I find myself in an awkward situation with Jason and Sneak in my first game. I searched up some lands and played some morphs early. Karn went absolutely nuts and had metric tons of colorless mana by turns eight and nine (think, Planar Portal into anything, play it with mana left over). Turn ten or eleven I find Time Stretch, play top, and see Witness on top. I take two more turns, and on turn number 2 (with two left) I Memnarch, stealing Jason's Erratic Portal, granting me infinite extra turns. I take Jason with me into the next pod, since Sneak did little to nothing in that game.

Pod 2: Evan (playing Chainer) and Brian lock it up. Not sure exactly how it happened, but I think Chainer locked everybody out with Titan and Nether Void.

Round 2: I am sitting with Nick and Evan. I get an absolutely nutty hand (land, land, Sol Ring, Mana Drain, Gifts Ungiven+ others.) I lock the game out on turn five with the help of a Gilded Lotus (and a Gifts for Temple, Tooth and Nail, Time Stretch, Witness), and combo turn six.

Brian was knocked out of his pod, but we managed a six-way split with some non-mafia member friends from our area.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 4:31 am 
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Joined: 2008-Jan-18 10:03 am
Age: Drake
Location: Where the streets have no wraith
And that's why no prizes should be offered in a casual format.

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 6:55 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
I am officially depressed thinking about what you think EDH is.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 7:30 am 
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Joined: 2008-May-28 3:42 pm
Age: Dragon
Yeah, I played against you guys...

and it was really dull.

Just scratching one another's back, more or less. Also unfortunate that I got beat on for playing blue, as I had answers to Niv on day 2, but had to play some defenses the turn he went off.

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 Post subject: Re: The EDH Mafia descends on GenCon.
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 7:58 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Chron wrote:
Sneak played Fact or Fiction, Brian of course giving him the 5-0 split.


It's not that you were "basically cheating" you were "actually cheating" when you played this card like this. I hope you die alone in a hole.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 9:08 am 

Joined: 2007-Dec-12 7:36 pm
Age: Dragon
Wow sounds like a shitty event thanks to you guys.

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Paper Decks: Sisay, Oona, Intet, Soknar, Sharuum the Gegemon, Nath, Sir Shandlar of Eberyn (Peasent)
Online: Garza Zol, Venser, Sisay, Ghost Council


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 Post subject: Re: The EDH Mafia descends on GenCon.
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 10:32 am 
EDH Rules Committee
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Joined: 2007-Jan-05 12:58 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Chron wrote:
words.


hmm

congrats?

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 Post subject: Re: The EDH Mafia descends on GenCon.
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 1:36 pm 
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Joined: 2008-Mar-24 12:14 am
Age: Elder Dragon
Location: Oakland, CA
warble wrote:
Chron wrote:
Sneak played Fact or Fiction, Brian of course giving him the 5-0 split.


It's not that you were "basically cheating" you were "actually cheating" when you played this card like this. I hope you die alone in a hole.

I really want to weigh in on this. Playing broken cards and broken combos in EDH is okay in my book. I don't do it myself, but I encourage anyone else to do so if he or she chooses. This is partially because the consequences are, at worst, that one night of potential EDH fun is wasted on a relatively boring game, followed by a new addition to the local (and possibly Official) ban list.

Exploiting the nature of the format, on the other hand, is not even remotely cool. When a group shows up to a multiplayer FFA with the intention of teaming up to take down the table, that's cheating. The worst part about it is the difficulty in establishing rules to prevent it in the future without also creating restrictions on normal in-game politicking. It does a disservice to the Magic community. Nobody wants to ban every card that refers to "an opponent" just because a few players are going to exploit the technical definition. That would make EDH less fun.

I'm not trying to attack anybody here, or ask for an apology. I just want people to obey the Don't Be a Dick rule. The game is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Let's all do our part to keep it that way, yeah?


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AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 3:08 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-01 7:51 pm
Age: Dragon
As Herm Edwards once said, "You play to win the game."

I commend these guys on what they did. They went into the game with a goal and plan. The were able to put the plan into motion, and therefore succeeded in completing the goal. Sure it's a casual format, but why play if you don't want to win? Sitting there and pissing time is no fun. Sure, they took advantage of the rules, but that's what good players do, use the rules to there advantage. Anyone could have came in with those intentions, but no one else did. Sucks for those that didn't come prepared. Little Richie could have seen this one coming...

So once again, props to the mafia crew for the wins.
And slops to everyone else.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 3:32 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jul-29 5:38 am
Age: Drake
Location: Lille, Fr
[Sorry for any bad English, this is not my native language]

X50isdafutureX wrote:
As Herm Edwards once said, "You play to win the game."

It sounds like there are Sirlin's remnants here.

That's right, you are playing to win, but as players bound to certain rules, provided you don't create rules you are the only one to follow. In a "normal" Magic event, you aren't allowed to get outside assistance or to bribe other players.

The rules never said it was forbidden for a player to ensure his opponent's victory, even if this opponent is in fact his ally because they split. And that's the point about two things that, in my opinion, can't be sticked together : multiplayer AND tournament.

You play casual to have fun, you play a tournament to win. But in multiplayer, you add a diplomacy strategy that ensures that, the more friends you bring to the event, the easier it is for you to win. And this is even more true in the fact that someone helping you doesn't reduce his chances to win the game, because he loses nothing by giving you a 5-cards Fact or Fiction.

So... should tournaments be held in multiplayer games ? Sounds like a bad idea to me... :?

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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 6:19 pm 

Joined: 2008-Jan-01 7:51 pm
Age: Dragon
You play to win the game.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-21 7:02 pm 

Joined: 2008-Aug-21 3:50 pm
Age: Wyvern
X50isdafutureX wrote:
You play to win the game.


If it's a tournament, yes.

If it's a normal EDH game? Not even remotely.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-22 7:02 am 

Joined: 2008-Jan-01 7:51 pm
Age: Dragon
rsg wrote:
X50isdafutureX wrote:
You play to win the game.


If it's a tournament, yes.

If it's a normal EDH game? Not even remotely.


So you just play to sit there and piss away hours?
Maybe I was just raised to be very competitive, but losing sucks, and spending hours to loss and not care about winning is a waste imo.


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AgePosted: 2008-Aug-22 7:33 am 
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Joined: 2007-Sep-21 8:22 am
Age: Elder Dragon
X50isdafutureX wrote:
losing sucks, and spending hours to loss and not care about winning is a waste imo


Oh, I've cheated to win at card tournaments before, my senior year I stole $100,000 in play money from my high school at their poker night to get myself and friends a bicycle, nintendo 64 and television. The difference is I actually had to steal the cash, launder it, and then win the auctions and I knew I was breaking the system and we were criminals. But...hey...some card players will do that... When you intentionally misplay Gifts and waste AN ENTIRE TOURNAMENT (actually 3 entire tournaments) and everyone who is there's time...shame on you. Why did he even post a single play from his pointless crime, to just anger us at their blatant cheating? They just committed petty theft during what's basically a charity event for our format and ruined everyone who was there's time because nobody wanted to break up the charity event to kick out half of the players who were clearly playing some thd, 2v2 or 3v3 variant. People who don't understand kindness and approach EDH games from a monetary standpoint should leave the format, we are playing cards not exploiting the kindness and generosity of others.


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 Post subject:
AgePosted: 2008-Aug-22 9:04 am 

Joined: 2008-Aug-22 8:33 am
Age: Hatchling
As a member of the EDH Mafia, I feel I must defend our approach and actions. I'm Jason, the guy that played Karn those three nights.

@iceage4life
Quote:
"Wow sounds like a shitty event thanks to you guys."


Umm..thanks!

@warble
Quote:
It's not that you were "basically cheating" you were "actually cheating" when you played this card like this. I hope you die alone in a hole.


Wow..bitter much? You would do the same thing, don't even lie.

@intreped
Quote:
I really want to weigh in on this. Playing broken cards and broken combos in EDH is okay in my book. I don't do it myself, but I encourage anyone else to do so if he or she chooses. This is partially because the consequences are, at worst, that one night of potential EDH fun is wasted on a relatively boring game, followed by a new addition to the local (and possibly Official) ban list.

Exploiting the nature of the format, on the other hand, is not even remotely cool. When a group shows up to a multiplayer FFA with the intention of teaming up to take down the table, that's cheating. The worst part about it is the difficulty in establishing rules to prevent it in the future without also creating restrictions on normal in-game politicking. It does a disservice to the Magic community. Nobody wants to ban every card that refers to "an opponent" just because a few players are going to exploit the technical definition. That would make EDH less fun.

I'm not trying to attack anybody here, or ask for an apology. I just want people to obey the Don't Be a Dick rule. The game is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Let's all do our part to keep it that way, yeah?


First and foremost, keep in mind that we all planned to play in these tournaments BEFORE we knew anything about the rules. It's only AFTER we heard the rules that we decided to "team up". If you don't like what we did, blame the judges for having a tournament or for putting us in 5-6 man pods where we're told it's FFA, politics are allowed, and only the top two advance.

@X50isdafutureX
Quote:
As Herm Edwards once said, "You play to win the game."

I commend these guys on what they did. They went into the game with a goal and plan. The were able to put the plan into motion, and therefore succeeded in completing the goal. Sure it's a casual format, but why play if you don't want to win? Sitting there and pissing time is no fun. Sure, they took advantage of the rules, but that's what good players do, use the rules to there advantage. Anyone could have came in with those intentions, but no one else did. Sucks for those that didn't come prepared. Little Richie could have seen this one coming...

So once again, props to the mafia crew for the wins.
And slops to everyone else.


Thanks for the props! The Family is pleased with you!

The bottom line is, you all can call it cheating as much as you want. If you don't like it, then perhaps intentional draws should be eliminated from competitive Magic? I don't think what we did was cheating. Did we take advantage of the situation that was presented to us? You're damn right we did. And it was a blast. And any one of you would have done the same damn thing if you were in our position...


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